Intro and Dealing with bad attitude from 4 year old

[Other Mother]

Thanks all for the additional responses! We've been having a hard time with this. In the last couple days, he's added hitting himself on the head with his knuckles when he's admonished even slightly. And throwing in angry "Fine, I'm a bad boy!" statements. It's only been a few days since we've tried the ignoring, but it's really hard to ignore it. When we ignore it, he does just move on as if nothing happened onto the next topic.

I think I would be able to be playful with DS when he's like this, but it may be harder for DH, and it probably wouldn't help if his parents used different approaches... right?

As for time-outs, we do them close by - he can always see us, and if he's having a hard time, then we sit right next to him or put him in our laps.

Rockland, I will definitely be checking out all those resources! Thank you!!

[SoCaliGirl]

Thanks all for the additional responses! We've been having a hard time with this. In the last couple days, he's added hitting himself on the head with his knuckles when he's admonished even slightly. And throwing in angry "Fine, I'm a bad boy!" statements. It's only been a few days since we've tried the ignoring, but it's really hard to ignore it. When we ignore it, he does just move on as if nothing happened onto the next topic.

I think I would be able to be playful with DS when he's like this, but it may be harder for DH, and it probably wouldn't help if his parents used different approaches... right?

As for time-outs, we do them close by - he can always see us, and if he's having a hard time, then we sit right next to him or put him in our laps.

Rockland, I will definitely be checking out all those resources! Thank you!!

That is pretty typical of strong willed kids. They realize that the old tactics aren't working and they up the ante to try and get the reaction and attention that the behavior used to provide. I think "Parenting the Strong-Willed Child" says things are likely to get much worse before they get better--I want to say that they tell you 2-3 weeks is about average for behavior change. Habits are cemented after about 21 days, and so it takes about that long to instill a new habit. With one of my kids (and actually, another one did this a few weeks ago but it never went anywhere), whining and tantrums were the norm for any "no" behavior and it really riled me up. I would say it took about a month of consistently staying calm but nonchalant for it to change, and there are times when he will revert and make a whining noise when things don't go his way, but it doesn't go to a full-blown tantrum and I can usually intervene and distract.

Good luck! Sounds like you're doing great, and again, I would not respond at all to the hitting himself. I remember one of my kids threw themselves on the ground hitting head for a tantrum...but would always make sure and migrate to the carpet to do it so he/she wouldn't hit the head on the tile. When kids hit themselves softly, or move to the carpet, they have more control over behavior than we give credit for. And the fact that he's able to move on to a new topic gives me the impression that it's not something deep-seated with attachment, but something he can control. YES, your husband needs to be on board--mine is a softy and as a result, his days with the kids while I work go a lot differently than when I am home--they know to test him and to try and get away with things I'd never allow, and as a result, he has much more frustrating days with them.

[JJ's Mom]

When we ignore it, he does just move on as if nothing happened onto the next topic.

I don't think you should worry about making light of it or being playful if simply ignoring the negative behaviors does work.

I know we parents have to pick our battles, and I'm thinking this would be one I'd hold my ground. It makes me really sad to see children who can control adults and situations....unknowingly to their (own) eventual disadvantage. I did struggle when my dd was a toddler and into preschool age until I could better see what was happening. Just keep working on the positive activities. I remember waiting for a positive experience and then pointing it out to her and even pointing out specifically that things are much happier this way, than THAT way.

Sending some encouragement your way!

[ecuador2004]

I thought of you this weekend - when my Grandson(age 4) told me "I don't like you Grandma" becaue I told him that if his Dad told him to take off his jacket then he had to do that.

I responded that I did not like it when he did not listen to his Dad. He took his jacket off an moved on...

Later in the day we had an exchange that went like this:
You are Cute, Austin
No - I'm not
Yes - you are cute - and you are funny
No - I'm not cute or funny
Yes - you are cute and funny and nice
No - I'm not cute or funny or nice.


By the time he left n the evening he did not want to go - did not want to leave cuz he LOVES ME!!

He is a hoot (if you are not his parent!).

[Emma'smom]

My Emma is a is 6 yr old and quite the little grump in the morning. She is not a morning person. We have learned when she gets in her little snits to either ignore and walk away or remove her from the situation. She sometimes has difficulty eating her breakfast. She will complain about food she loves. If she complains she has to leave the table for a few minutes and is allowed back when she is quite. She also sometimes has whines about dressing and pretends she can't get herself dressed. If this happens, I leave the room and go blow-dry my hair. She usually finishes getting dressed and then comes to me and I straighten her up. Then we go about our morning like normal. I used to try to be nice and talk to her through these incidents. I think doing that simply makes it worse.

Good luck,

[Rich MOMents]

Hi!
I just finished reading this article. I don't know if this applies to your situation or not, but it definitely applies to a child I know well! The entire article is an interesting read, but this is the paragraph that stood out to me (my bold):

One of the most typical features of the emotional make-up of a child with DTD is “hyper-arousal.” Dr. Bruce Perry (see http://www.childtrauma.org/), has shown that traumatic events have the capacity to change Central Nervous System of children the way that it stays in the aroused state much longer, and every perceived threat (real or imagined), reinforces the sensitized neuronal pathways for the heightened fear/stress response. Perceived threats can objectively be typical day-to-day events (new environment, a loud re-direction, disrupted routine, perceived rejection, etc.), thus regularly and negatively reinforcing this hyper-arousal state and causing an immature, aggressive, and socially inappropriate response to routine family events.

That describes one of my kiddos. We are in a very different place after having completed neuro reorg and attachment/trauma therapy, but there are still moments that I can see the part that I bolded. Again, this is now rare for us, but it used to be quite commonplace. When I read a description like you posted, I "see" my child. It may be entirely unrelated to your situation.

Best,
Cyn